Curse

nebojats · Nov 29, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I'd like to give recognition where it's due. BahamutKaiser convinced me to reconsider how Masochism works (damage is now redirected from allies rather than physically redirecting attacks from foes). actionjack shared his Extending Mind attribute for his Spell Binder/Weaver class with me, and that significantly influenced the Shrift's Flagellation attribute (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=101419). draxynnic gave valuable input on balancing skills and contributed some originals to the list.

THE SHRIFT:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...newshrift4.jpg

As with all other Guild Wars classes, the Shrift is devoted to his god. However, the other professions' faith pales in comparison to his fervor. To commune with his deity, the Shrift explores his own mortality through suffering. He is covered in painful piercings which are constant reminders of his own corporeal flaws. The Shrift enters battle, redirecting opponents' damage towards himself. By basking in the agony, his faith is strengthened. All the while, he zealously preaches, forcing opponents to recognize their own humility.

As far as basic stats go, the Shrift has about Warrior level HP, armor, and energy. Damage from the flail (think anything from a free-swinging mace to a cat-o-nine-tails) would be 15-25, at a rate of one attack per 1.75 seconds.

These are the Shrift's four attributes:

1) Masochism (Primary Attribute) - Similar to Soul Reaping for Necromancers. Affects how much damage taken is converted into energy.
2) Flagellation - Determines the range of Flagellation enchantments (minimum: nearby, to maximum: 1/2 of the aggro circle). Only one Flagellation enchantment can be used at a time.
3) Penance - Affects mid-range calls/chants which target enemies, most of which target enemies that are dealing damage to the Shrift.
4) Condemnation - Affects spells which confuse opponents' skills.

Strengths:

1) The Shrift shines when he is truly getting wailed upon by as many people as possible. This allows him to maintain energy and use more Penance skills, which can weaken the attacking enemies to the point of uselessness. Very few Penance skills affect opponents' health, instead they focus on debuffing other stats.
2) Depending on the build, the Shrift can act as a tank, protecting squishies (secondary class Monk could help keep him alive while nullifying opponents' attacks), or as a debuff spammer.

Weaknesses:

1) A Mesmer can dominate the Shrift in many ways that render the Shrift useless (use your imagination). One quick example I thought up: by breaking the Shrift's Flagellation enchantment, the mesmer takes attention away from the Shrift back towards other players. Without being attacked, the Shrift does negligible weapon damage and has little energy, allowing him to sporadically cast Condemnation spells.
2) A Necromancer that uses Well of Silence or some such will shut down the Shrift's Penance skills. The result: he's a passive tank that gets beat upon but does nothing in return to his attackers except for the ocassional condemnation spell and minimal weapon damage.
3) The Shrift has little self-heal and is dependent upon a supporting class to be effective without dying.
4) An Area of Effect, Damage over Time spell could quickly drain the Shrift's health. For example, if the Shrift were protecting four teammates and an Elementalist cast Fire Storm on him and those he was protecting, the Shrift could conceivably take 1200 damage in 10 seconds.

HOW THE SHRIFT WORKS IN BATTLE:

The Shrift may enter the frenzy along with other point-blank attackers, increasing the likelehood to receive damage. Alternatively, the Shrift can hang back with the spellcasters, acting as a tank to protect them. After setting up a Flagellation enchantment, the received damage of allies in range is redirected towards the Shrift. As foes attack, damage received is converted into energy which the Shrift then uses to call out Penance shouts/chants, slowly rendering attacking foes useless. See further below in the thread for examples.

As well as drawing fire and crippling enemies, the Shrift may also blur the lines between friend and foe by using Condemnation skills (which aren't dependent upon being attacked). These skills can make enemy monks accidentally heal allies, make opponents deal damage to other adjacent opponents, etc. For examples of Condemnation skills, look further down in the thread.

So that's my idea. The main benefits that I can see:

1) Another class besides the Warrior tank which could take massive amounts of damage. Unlike the Warrior, the Shrift would be an actual tank, protecting his allies regardless of whether or not opponents choose to attack him.
2) The Mesmer would be most effective at shutting down a Shrift (which would otherwise be a pretty powerful damage negater/tank). This would reinvigorate a perpetually unpopular yet valuable class.
3) The role is original. The Shrift doesn't heal, does very little damage, doesn't exploit the dead, and doesn't buff allies. The Shrift casts hexes and opponent-targeted chants/shouts, but none do much damage and most are dependent upon getting beat on.
4) The Shrift also adds chance into Guild Wars (chance of mistargeting spells), which hasn't been introduced as of yet.

What is important is coming up with a fundamentally new role that works within the current framework, and I think the Shrift does the job. What do you guys think? Please, no flaming?

actionjack · Nov 30, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Concept is good.. but Shrift is a bad bad name.

Although there are already several proff with similar spportive and team protective functions, I think a new support is fine. What I hope to see than is how to make it play differntly than that of other, which would involve with new game-mechanic of new skill type.

Maybe I will PM you some link of a similar CC I made befoe... if I still remember when I get home...

BahamutKaiser · Nov 30, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

This is waaaay better than the other idea, I hope you detail it a little more, and, well I still don't like the identity (ewww, piercings, allg), but you know that's just personal.

I was wondering, how would the certain few being protected be decided? This is important because, well, if you are in a group of 8 teammates, and somehow your protective effects mask the survival units instead of the support units, it kind of defeats the purpose. I think if it only affects adjacent allies, it can afford to work on as many as present, if it works on nearby allies, it would need some additional weaknesses.

With this kind of defense, another counter could work quite well, AoE. If the Shirft absorbs damage on several allies and damage done directly on himself, it can cause a spike whether he is defended or not. Personally, I would appreciate this, as AoE and DoT spells deserve more advantages and opportunities.

I am flattered that you considered my advice, and though we have really different tastes, maybe we coudl work on something together some time. I appologize if I am overly critical (I know I am), I hope we can develope some comradry in the future.

nebojats · Nov 30, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Thanks for the none-flaming feedback! Please tell me what you think about my responses to both of your critiques.

To actionjack:

I understand your hesitance about the name. It is awkward, I'll admit, and at first I disliked it. Now it's growing on me, but I'll try and brainstorm some alternatives. What I'm really attached to is the definition of the word, "shrift." Check it out:

the imposition of penance by a priest on a penitent after confession.

As far as a new in-game mechanic goes, I like your "Extending Mind" attribute, and that could be implemented with the Shrift; instead of determining the number of allies whose taken damage can be redirected, putting more attribute points towards Flagellation could increase the range of Flagellation enchantments. What do you think?

To BahamutKaiser

I'm glad this version is more acceptable for you. Your feedback before was valuable, so thanks for that. I'm a big fan of constructive criticism and sharing ideas. Two points:

1) Regarding the Flagellation enchantments and which allies they target, I have two ideas. The first can be credited to actionjack. What about making the range of Flagellation enchantments dependent upon the Flagellation attribute, rather than having Flagellation determine the number of allies which can be targeted? Possible ranges could be anywhere from directly adjacent to a half-radius.

A second way to control which allies are targeted by Flagellation enchantments could be to have a variety of enchantments which all focus on different groups. For example, have enchantments which prioritize damage dealers, melee fighters, magic-users, those with lowest maximum health, etc. On a related note, I was thinking the Shrift could have Flagellation enchantments which provide a range of damage sharing. For example, one enchantment could make it so the Shrift shares 50% of the damage (for a lower energy cost) and another could make the Shrift take 100% of the damage (for a higher energy cost).

2) Area of Effect damage spells would be a perfect way to spike the Shrift. I'm glad to see that the Shrift would open up more options for AoE and DoT spells. I'm also glad to see that the Shrift has another easily identifiable weakness. Most of the concept classes seem to be too overpowered and without any vulnerabilities.

Although I would still like for the Shrift to be vulnerable to DoT and AoE spells, it almost seems like too much of a weakness. If the Shrift were protecting four people and an Elementalist cast Fire Storm on him and those he was protecting, the Shrift could conceivably take 1200 damage in 10 seconds (if everyone sat there stupidly). I think that might be asking too much, even of a tank. What do you think about increasing the Shrift's HP and armor levels to being significantly higher than a Warrior?

draxynnic · Nov 30, 2006, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Putting the HP and armour levels up seems a little un-GW. The only class with an inherent HP bonus currently is the Dervish, and that's only by 25. Otherwise, all classes have the same hit points, before runes and skills.

Possibly one way you could deal with it is to have a limit on how much damage can be redirected (per hit or per second as seems appropriate - possibly have a skill for each). That way, the Shrift may be able to be set up so that it helps redirect away some of the pressure without a single well-timed Sandstorm being a guaranteed kill...

Another consideration could be the use of skills like Endure Pain and the like to temporarily increase the Shrift's hit points and armour levels so they survive that way...

nebojats · Nov 30, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Here's a tentative list of skills so far. Don't flame them, because I'm well-aware they're probably unbalanced. Critiques would be appreciated.

Masochism

"I relish pain!" - 15e, 30r. Elite Shout. For 15...39 seconds, your maximum Health is doubled and you receive double benefit from healing, but you take double damage from all sources. When "I relish pain!" ends, you're healed for 50...202 Health.

Celestial Aid - 5e, 25r. Stance. For 10 seconds, after each hit you heal an amount of damage equal to the damage taken, to a maximum of 3...15.

Flagellation

Mortification - Elite Enchantment. For 5…15 seconds, 100% of damage is redirected from allies within range to yourself.

Humility - Elite Enchantment. For 5...15 seconds, all conditions on allies within range are transferred to you.

Servility - Elite Enchantment. For 5...15 seconds, all hexes on allies are transferred to you.

Zealous Prostration - Elite Enchantment. For 5…15 seconds, allies within range can’t lose more than 5% maximum health from a single attack. When you prevent damage, you lose 45…15 health.

Holy Agony - Enchantment. For 5…15 seconds, 50% of damage is redirected from allies within range to yourself.

Subservience - Enchantment. For 5…15 seconds, whenever allies within range take damage, that damage is reduced by 15 and you take 15 damage.

Abasement - Enchantment. For 5...15 seconds, you share all conditions with allies in range. Conditions on allies expire 50% faster.

Subjection - Enchantment. For 5...15 seconds, you share all hexes with allies within range. Hexes on allies expire 50% faster.

Whirling Flail - Flail attack. Perform a spinning flail attack, striking for +4...10 damage to all adjacent opponents.

Blessed Blow - Flail attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +5...17 damage.

Hallowed Swing - Flail attack. If this attack hits an attacking foe, that foe is knocked down.

Penance

Interrupting Ballad - Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that opponent is knocked down.

Ballad of Confusion - Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that foe is Dazed for 5…17 seconds.

“You are nothing!” - Elite Shout. All nearby foes are stripped of enchantments.

“There is no resistance!” - Shout. Nearby foes within earshot lose 1…5 energy.

“Submit!” - Shout. Nearby foes within earshot lose 5…20 armor.

“You are pitiful!” - Shout. For 30 seconds, nearby foes deal 15...45% less damage.

Stifling Ballad - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that opponent loses 1…10 energy.

Ballad of Vulnerability - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that opponent loses 10…40 armor.

Ballad of Decrepitude - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that foe is Crippled for 5…13 seconds.

Dark Ballad - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that foe suffers from Blindness for 3…9 seconds.

Ballad of Censorship - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that foe is Silenced for 10…26 seconds.

Ballad of Pain - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that foe suffers from Deep Wound for 5…17 seconds.

Corporeal Ballad - Chant. For 10 seconds, if an opponent within earshot deals 50 damage to you, that foe suffers from Weakness for 5…17 seconds.

Condemnation

Corporeal Flaw - Hex. For 10… 30 seconds, a random skill of target opponent is disabled.

Human Error - Hex. For 15 seconds, there is a 15%...60% chance that target opponent’s offensive skill will target an opponent instead of an ally.

Earthly Mistake - Hex. For 15 seconds, there is a 15%...60% chance that target opponent’s defensive skill (buff or healing) will target an ally instead of an opponent.

Self-loathing - Hex. For 15 seconds, there is a 15%...60% chance that any offensive skills directed at target ally will be redirected to the opponent who used that skill.

Incompetence - Hex. For 15 seconds, there is a 15%...60% chance that target opponents’ attacks do half damage.

Distracting Ballad - Chant. For 10 seconds, the next time each opponent within earshot is attacked, there is a 30…65% chance that the attack will be a critical hit.

rabbitXcore · Dec 01, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

i love the idea of holy agony but to effectivly use this idea you couldnt tank so much as protect the support persons. This is only how i see it though and i could have missed something fundamental

/signed

draxynnic · Dec 01, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Taking some inspiration from Ritualist spirits there, I see...

Humility and Servility should probably at least be Elite. Consider the previously existing mass condition removals - almost all are Elite (Martyr and Cautery Signet, for instance), and the only one I can think of that isn't (Lyric of Purification) is quite situational. And mass hex removal, to my knowledge, doesn't exist, which makes Servility appear quite powerful even as an Elite.

The Penance shouts don't appear to gel with previously existing 'offensive' shouts ("None Shall Pass", "Coward!", "Fear Me!"), most of which either have a single target or only affect nearby targets. Certainly, being able to have those effects on everything within earshot seems overpowered. The Chants look okay, but it's not clear whether they only affect the first opponent to set off the condition, or all who do within the duration. If the latter, many of them are candidates for Elite status.

You could probably also use a weapon, even though using that weapon isn't the character's primary focus. I'd suggest a flail and linking it to the Flagellation attribute. (Speaking of which, it might be worthwhile doing some research and finding some of the terms used for those pilgrims who used to go around beating themselves...) Putting in a handful of token attack skills but making it clear that the attribute (and therefor the weapon) is more oriented towards getting hurt could go a long way towards the flavour of the profession (compared to other weapon-users, where generally the whole attribute is oriented towards doing damage with the weapon).

EDIT: A couple of suggested Masochism skills, intended to help the Shrift survive damage while still gaining the benefits from taking it:

Suck It Up: 5e, 25r
Stance. For 10 seconds, after each hit you heal an amount of damage equal to the damage taken, to a maximum of 3...15. (This is a damage-reduction effect similar to Protective Hands, but it allows the Shrift to gain the benefit of taking the damage.)

"Bring It!" (E) 15e, 30r
Elite Shout. For 15...39 seconds, your maximum Health is doubled and you receive double benefit from healing, but you take double damage from all sources. When Bring It! ends, you're healed for 50...202 Health. (Why, yes, this is essentially an opposite of Aura of the Lich, modified for the flavour of the Shrift and to make a Shrift using this not TOO much of a burden for the healers. The idea is that using this skill makes the benefits from losing health rack up faster, as well as helping to deal with degen and providing an Endure Pain-like emergency relief from low health)

nebojats · Dec 01, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Taking some inspiration from Ritualist spirits there, I see...

Humility and Servility should probably at least be Elite. Consider the previously existing mass condition removals - almost all are Elite (Martyr and Cautery Signet, for instance), and the only one I can think of that isn't (Lyric of Purification) is quite situational. And mass hex removal, to my knowledge, doesn't exist, which makes Servility appear quite powerful even as an Elite.

The Penance shouts don't appear to gel with previously existing 'offensive' shouts (None Shall Pass, Coward!, Fear Me!), most of which either have a single target or only affect nearby targets. Certainly, being able to have those effects on everything within earshot seems overpowered. The Chants look okay, but it's not clear whether they only affect the first opponent to set off the condition, or all who do within the duration. If the latter, many of them are candidates for Elite status.

You could probably also use a weapon, even though using that weapon isn't the character's primary focus. I'd suggest a flail and linking it to the Flagellation attribute. (Speaking of which, it might be worthwhile doing some research and finding some of the terms used for those pilgrims who used to go around beating themselves...) Putting in a handful of token attack skills but making it clear that the attribute (and therefor the weapon) is more oriented towards getting hurt could go a long way towards the flavour of the profession (compared to other weapon-users, where generally the whole attribute is oriented towards doing damage with the weapon).

Ah thanks for that feedback. Very helpful! Yeah, I did get some inspiration from the spirits, haha.

I made Humility and Servility elite, as you can see above. Also, you're definitely right about the shouts. I didn't realize earshot range meant the aggro circle (that is far too powerful). I think "nearby" is a much better range.

I intended the chants to affect all opponents during the duration (similar to how a Paragon's chants affect all allies for the duration). Which do you think would merit Elite status? Remember, the Shrift has very little energy, so unless he's receiving a lot of damage, he won't be able to spam chants (I was thinking the intense risk would make up for the overpowering skills).

The flail is a great idea. It would go well with all the piercings. And I also think it would be a great idea to link some weapon skills to the Flagellation attribute. Most people wouldn't be satisfied with a class unless it has some sort of offensive capability. I'll try and incorporate your critiques, so please tell me what you think as the Shrift develops.

EDIT: The Masochism skills are perfect. I gave them different titles, but the effects are the same.

draxynnic · Dec 01, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Well, part of the balancing would be involved in the costing of the skills...

But, looking at existing skills, the ones I'd be looking at are Interruption (knockdowns) and Confusion (dazed). Both of those are generally reasonably difficult to achieve - inflicting knockdowns with non-elite skills (and even some elites) normally involve loss of all adrenaline, exhaustion, or situational use, and most skills that inflict Dazed are either situational or Elite. In these cases, it is situational, but that's countered by being potentially able to affect multiple targets (and, in the case of Confusion, being most likely to affect those targets that will be hurt the most, being Elementalists).

Speaking of Exhaustion, you could possibly make another elite ballad that inflicts exhaustion on targets that meet the prerequisite.

nebojats · Dec 04, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I like the Exhaustion Ballad idea. I'll add that when I get the chance.

I should get around to assigning costs and energy values, I suppose, but that will be so time-consuming.

By the way, I added a fictitious screenshot of the Shrift at the beginning of the thread. It's not eactly what I'm envisioning (I tried my hardest to avoid the sadomasochist look), but I'm not willing to put more effort into it right now, haha.

Woop Shotty · Dec 05, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Sounds like fun, and the concept image is not bad, too. I could imagine a short man with all sorts of piercings, performing rituals. From the sound of it, it seems you're saying more tribal than ritualists, and dealing with rituals that are more primal in nature. So it could affect party members in a variable range with "flagellation" enchantments? That's like a mix between shouts, enchantments, and similar to weapon spells in that they're a different sort.

Anyway, I like it.

GedLongbow · Dec 06, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

zealous prostartion is one good lookin skill, id love that in the game

nebojats · Dec 09, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Thanks for the support all. Any more critiques would be greatly appreciated. I'm always looking to make modifications, as I know this is still a very rough idea compared to already existing classes.